'The Womanifesto Way'

Please note that this publication is currently under review and will be subject to changes.  

Gaps and ambiguities in the transcript have been marked in square brackets [  ] — these will be corrected before publishing.

VARSHA NAIR (VN): Hey.

NITAYA UEAREEWORAKUL (NU): Okay

VN: now you're on

PHAPTAWAN SUWANNAKUDT (PS): In the zoom app, I always have this background

NU: what's your background?

PS: It is actually from the studio that I moved out of. One morning when I came in and in there was this light, like, through the grill, you know, the grill, ventilation, and the light, just reflected in that corner. So, I just quickly took that picture. And I use it now.

VN: So, how's everybody? So what I was thinking, how are we going to begin? I mean, we were talking about the Womanifesto way. And I think we need to go back. I mean, we need to go to the very beginning, in one way. And I thought one thing we could do is we could each actually, we could also start to write. So for instance, we could write maybe, about one memory attached to being part of Womanifesto or the planning of Womanifesto.
What do you think?
Yeah, like some memory, you know, I was thinking back about the first time that we started to work on Womanifesto, and what I remember is how, the time that when we were meeting at [ ] Gallery, and we would go for lunch to that Muslim restaurant. That was, you know, was so special. The food was so good. And I remember like, I remember years afterwards when I went back to that same Muslim restaurant to eat the same food, somehow it didn't taste as special.

NU: that Muslim food. Yeah. With me, and Phaptawan.

VN: No, not Phaptawan, you, me and Konark

NU: Hmm. Wow. Such a good memory you

VN: you know at [Manchuria].

That was that was one memory than the other memory I was trying to recall, so many things, like I think there was a there was maybe a dinner either in my house or in your place Tuk

NU: Oh, yeah. With Contini in that little wooden house, yes, in that wooden house

VN: And I remember like talking a lot with the Tari Ito that day, really getting to know her and I can't remember what we talked about, but… 
So I was just thinking, you know, and you will maybe Phaptawan or maybe you will have a memory that is attached to the early planning of Womanifesto, also participating in it. But then you were not there. You know, you were already in Sydney

NU: Yeah, but I remember Phaptawan visit also this house when [Chan] is so little, I got the picture of Phaptawan and [ ] in the same house that we organised Womanifesto and then the [ ]

PS: You see in 1997 when the first exhibition was up at [ ] Yeah. I left in 1996, came back briefly. I think I went to meet, Tuk, in 1996, you know, but in 1997 I both felt pregnant. And [ ] arrived in November. So that's when I missed all that, you know, the setting up the exhibition, the installation. And then I went when [ ] was two months and a half.

VN: Because Womanifesto happened in March on Women's Day right? The first exhibition, so you must have had [ ] in November and then you must have visited at some stage after that. 
But I mean, I was thinking more about also thinking more than memory, also more related to the planning you know, how we how we made certain decisions for instance, Tuk like I also remember…
Hello, John. How are you it's very it's very strange with his virtual background how you popped in and out, and your hair is doing funny things John. Blowing over.

PS: John is just delivering plums

VN: Very nice.

JOHN CLARK (JC): Happy given the situation. That's good.

VN: Oh, well.
What else can you do? you could beat yourself up all the time. Otherwise…

JC: Lovely light outside tonight. Golden Light under rain clouds is beautiful. Here in Sydney. Very beautiful light. You spend any time in Sydney? Not just for quick visits? the light in Sydney is extraordinary.

VN: I know. I know each time I've been there. It's something different.

JC: It's something amazing. You don't even have to imagine the harbour. But you know

PS: you know that you mentioned the light I just quickly go and take a picture

VN: Yeah, we need pictures for our documentation. So take as many pictures as you can.

JC: Has she showed you the new studio

VN: No, no, I think she's taking a picture of the light. You're talking about.

JC: No, because the studio is really something that's really beautiful.

VN: I don't often find that sort of thing. Yeah, very nice that she's got a studio now at the the bottom of the garden. It's not only nice it's necessarily necessary, actually.

JC: We can shout at each other across the lawn. Yeah, right. Yes.

PS: Sometimes he's lonely.

VN: Yeah. Of course.

PS: I'll send picture in…

VN: Yeah so, I think what's interesting is to think about how also we went about doing things you know
For instance, I remember we were looking for funding and meeting people at Japan Foundation, and for the first time I realised, they were very interested to know how many Japanese artists were involved in the project. And this was my first exposure to one of these organisations. I thought to myself, aha, they will only give you money if their country is represented and, no funding body or nobody will fund you, unless we somehow meet their agenda.
And then I actually remember this conversation with you Tuk, ‘Ok we will funding, but they cannot tell us which artists to invite, like, we are already inviting Japanese artists, but they can't say okay, we will fund you only if you invite this person, this person or this person.’ And the next conversation we had was that no matter what funding we get from whoever, we will make our decisions independently. That we will work the way we want to work and we will plan the way we want to plan, we won't let them interfere.
Yeah. And then we went to Bangkok Post, they actually printed the catalogue for us.

VN: Do you remember Tuk?

NU: Yeah. From the connection of [fine up]? Yeah.

VN: They printed the catalogue for us. And I think their logo is on the back of the catalogue. I don't have any catalogues here.
And I think it was the same thing at that time deciding, like, where should the logo go? and how big should it be? or how small should it be?
And what was really important were the artists who are participating in the project. So, it shouldn't be about the logos of these funding organisations like Japan Foundation, Bangkok Post.
But of course, they have to be acknowledged, we are grateful for whatever funding they gave us.
Or Bangkok Post didn't give us money, but they agreed to print the catalogue, which was huge. Japan Foundation gave a little bit of money I seem to remember.
And, then, you know, all of these decisions led to coming up with the design for the catalogue where we ask for everybody's hand print for the poster and for the front of the catalogue, like, here we are, the women as the artists. So, it was very important for us, I remember this very clearly, that we were front page and we were we were really marking our presence, we were really saying here we are.
So, it was interesting. I think, I was just thinking back on some of the core things, I think the first steps that we took in planning, why we made certain decisions and how we made certain decisions, we instinctively knew and we were of course very and we are very independent minded and we have to do it our in our way, you know, not dictated by a gallery or by a curator or by somebody funding us.

NU: So, so this is going to be like,
we'll be in the content about the timeline. This is I think the timeline, the timeline is something separate to this.

VN: This is what the content that we have the three of us are being commissioned to write the content like right above the woman who passed away.
So, so, what I, what I propose is that we do this conversation and of course, I have to transcribe it. If we do the recording, and I will either transcribe myself or I will ask Marni if there is a little bit of funding I can give an assistant or somebody who can watch the video and type a conversation.

PS: Let me explore some applications that can be used in zoom and transcribe with AI into speech, yeah.

VN: I'm sure there is and that will be good. And I also think that for the online anthology, some audio of this conversation can be extracted and it can be used. So, the three of us talking you know, we can extract the sound which will be really nice.
Yeah, and you just sent this photo and you know, we should actually put the photo into the folder, sorry I haven't uploaded anything into that folder yet. But yeah, it's so beautiful.

PS: John made a remark it's…

VN: well, I think I'm just going to take a photo out of my window so you can see what the light is like
Tuk can take a photo out of here window and we can see all the light
so it's quite nice. It's quite nice to have this kind of documentation of what we're looking at outside the window you know?

NU: I will take the sky later.

VN: Or you can just take a photo of where you're sitting, you can just take a photo of what you're looking at like I just sent a photo of what I'm looking at and what Phaptawan is looking at, now you show what you're looking at

PS: I used the view that is right in front of me, that’s the photo that I shared

VN: Yeah. I think Tuk has gone for a walk

VN: Ah, she sent a photo, very nice, is this what you're seeing Tuk? from your window?

NU: Yeah, yeah. From the outside. I just go outside and took it. Yeah, because it's too many things in the room.

VN: But I want to see too many things in the room. Can you take a photo of where you're sitting and what you're looking at?

NU: wet wet wet. Yeah.

VN: Did you send already?

PS: So that's in front of me with the computer and looking out the window. 

VN: Nice. Okay, now we’ve gotten into taking photos and sending to each other. We're not We're not interested in zoom

PS: how interesting is it when we talking about when we talk about the Womanifesto way, we get distracted by food, by view ,by the light. Everything

VN: I know Yeah, Tuk, I can’t see you, where's your video? 
we got one of your sculptures.
Yeah I think that's also such a big part of it. Let's really fast forward and from the first Womanifesto planning, planning to now, you know, to the last the residency project which Phaptawan you were part of that planning as well, where three of us were together
And I think that's the thing about how we work together, I don't think we I don't think we had meetings like meetings are understood. It was like this actually, like you say, we get distracted by the food by the light.

PS: I remember Varsha you always had a camera, right? And in fact, we all carried cameras. But I remember at one session, we were in the kitchen. And then you went off to take this video or picture of this creature like ants or something on the bark of a tree trunk.
We were fascinated by that. And then we started looking at it and you were just like, ‘oh, I have to take this picture’ and you made a video.
Do you still have that one? 

VN: I don't even remember that.

PS: It was so fascinating; it was like a group of insects and it's kind of dispersed
yeah, I remember that picture. But when you mentioned about the residency, and how we get distracted, that is one of the things that you went, ‘oh my god, I have to record that’. And I remember the way this group of insects dispersed away

VN: Yeah, I mean, I think I have a vague memory, what had happened after the residency, my computer crashed. I lost a lot of the photographs, a lot of the materials and you had to send me all your photographs and materials, I actually lost everything that I had. Except I think when we were at the residency, I saved some of the photographs, which I had, you know, we created this pool right? We said okay, everybody with photographs, share. And that's why some photos that I took survived.
Fortunately, that video I made of you rocking [Jumong] is that cradle where you're singing, that survived.

NU: Yeah,

VN: I also remember later on when I was editing, you know, I think I made you sing separately because I had recorded you but I lost it all. But you came to Bangkok and I made you sing again and I recorded you

NU: Yeah, remember that, I still sing that song.

VN: I have it, I listen to it sometimes, I really love it.
You know, the work happens very much as part of the whole team, it isn't this thing like, ‘Okay now we are going to sit, now we are in our studio and we are going to make work’ It just, it happens, like you are putting a baby to sleep or you're cooking or you're weaving
I mean, especially on the farm, everything was felt so organic, including the way we were working or the conversations that were happening and the workshops.

PS: Yeah, and when we talk about it, we use the word residency, but actually it a home, it's, Tuk’s home. So I think that influenced how it's evolved, around life in that farm.
That is one thing, but when you were talking about fast forwarding from the first Womanifesto, to the residency and I try to think about how we follow this trail of Womanifesto, between us three.
I was the person who was not fully part of it, even though I, participated, or sometimes I came, outside of the events to catch up with you both, and sometimes one on one and sometimes both of you, and sometimes just followed up with the work that you two have been doing. So speaking from my own position, in and out and and I think that there can be a way in which each trail shows the life of each participant among us three. And I think that is one way we can characterise it.

VN: In a way, every project actually punctuates a certain moment in our lives, which is also quite interesting. And one of the things you mentioned earlier, the farm while we called it a residency, it was actually Tuk’s home. And the first Womanifesto planning project for me, it was in Tuk’s home, that's when I just met Tuk, and I started to go around to her place. And I knew she was doing the Studio Xang the children's workshops, and I got to interact with this art environment. And this was also informing the planning of the project, and later on when we did the 2001 workshop, and then the residency and the whole thing about the workshops with the schools and the University came up in conversation. It just made complete sense. That was the first Womanifesto, my experience of knowing what Tuk was doing with Studio Xang, and these children's workshops. And so that was that is also the discontinuity, this line that kind of, you know, things didn't just develop out of the blue, there was this underlying kind of connection to, what we were doing as well and how we were meeting as well each other and seeing what we did in our lives, not just in our art lives, but in our related lives, I would say, which was quite interesting
And the home thing is also really interesting because actually, Womanifesto is a home and it really was from the first project in Tuk’s house, [ ] wooden house, and then ending up on the farm, which was the home and every other project in between, it was always your home space, this was always a very, important factor.

NU: That's true. I remember when I was in [ ], every time I would have to go to Bangkok, for the meeting with you, Varsha, I stayed in your home. So yes, it's the way we feel like the family. When we work in the Womanifesto way, it’s like family work. We share with eachother and create a warm atmosphere, I feel that [ ], you’re like a big sister and [ ] also, even though you have to live in Australia. But in my mind [ ] is always involved with Womanifesto, even though she's living in Australia. And it's so nice, you know, when we went for, the archive project, we lived in Phatawan’s house, it’s touching.

VN: Yeah, one way or the other. It isn't like, if you think about any other project, where you're getting together. I think maybe it's with us artists that we are always hosting each other or caring for each other. In that sense, these things are above everything. So of course we talk about food first, or we talk about what are we going to drink? are we opening a bottle of wine? it's really around the table.

NU: Ever since you. I can get the Indian dishes

VN: And I think through you I learned to eat rice with [NumPy] with just just plain rice, nothing. I remember so clearly Tuk saying once. ‘this is my favourite. I love this. I don't need anything’. And I remember at some stage I must have, tried it like ‘oh, you know, Tuk just eats [non pick NumPy] with rice’. And I was like, ‘mhmm very nice.’

NU: [ ], Phatawan and I, we love that too.

VN: Yeah, what else, actually, if you read Christina's thesis, which I must go back and read, she talks about how we, at Womanifesto, have had a way or had a way of achieving projects that kept with the rhythm of our lives, of our thinking.

And I said this before, we never really, thought of projects as, ‘Okay, this next one will be this and the one after that will be this and the one after that will be this’. We literally would be talking, as we are now, and we would come up with an idea.

PS: I feel like the way you two think about the gathering, you want to capture all the things that happen when we get together and without planning. To touch on what you said about Christina in her writing about Womanifesto as a projects that ‘just happens’, the Gathering is one such model that I could think through the getting together. Earlier, when, Varsha said that Womanifesto was home, and Tuk said that it's like visiting. I think that is one sense, maybe because I live away from what I called home, as in Thai, my background, and there is something about the visiting, and hosts. In Sydney, for example, when someone knocks on the door, and just invites themselves into the house, it's considered rude. But in in Thailand, even when you’re inside or outside the home you come together, ‘come and have a meal!’, ‘did you have a meal?”, the gathering starts from something and then it grows, it grows from being together, hosts become visitors and visitors become hosts. That's how I see the pattern. There is no plan, if there is no plan, there’s no structure. You two think a lot about gathering, although during COVID at that time when we were separated and thinking about what we should do about the project. The gathering, the sense of gathering doesn't come out of nothing, it comes out of that pattern of visiting, of hosting, of welcoming and having a sense of community.

VN: Yeah, so hospitality in a sense, But you don't define it as a definite word like ‘okay, now I'm going to be hospitable’. I understand that very well, also having grown up in exactly the same way here, it's very open. If somebody arrives unexpectedly and it's close to mealtime, you make sure you insist, you make sure. ‘you're not going to leave before you eat with us, no matter what’ it's not pre planned. It's not about what food you're going to put on the table. It's like, ‘Oh, you're here, you know, we must sit together’ Is this really this [ ]
Even walking down the road in Bangkok, I would meet this lady who was working in one of the shops, I would bump into her quite often. And of course, she [ ], that would be the first question, you know. It really is a way of being, isn't it? Which is very embedded in us, through our culture, through our interactions, through how we've seen it being done around us since we were born.

PS: And although I hate to say that it is a woman’s thing, maybe because you mentioned that it comes from the way we are born about the way we born, There is kind of gendered base to these roles as well, even though we don't think about that.

VN: Oh, absolutely. It's very much so. In fact, what's actually really interesting is what I saw in my own family growing up, was every Sunday, my grandmother, without even being told, she would say, ‘Okay, today, we have to make two times the amount of food’ because she knew that my grandfather would invite any passing person. He would be sitting out on the porch, and lots of people would visit him being a holiday and then he would say, ‘No, no, you must eat before you go, you must eat before you go’. And it was really up to my grandmother even pre anyone eating. And I think this is another interesting point, I think we pre-programmed ourselves as women.

We really pre-programme ourselves. So in terms of planning things, I think it's really natural to us.

PS: That's exactly the word that I'm thinking of this came about naturally.

VN: Yeah, it's like, what's the big deal? You’ve got to plan you have maybe 10 artists, you have to think about the food. Like, Tuk, the 2001 workshop, when we first started to go to [ ] and we were planning and it was [ ]. It was so interesting, it was like ‘Oh sister will come to cook’ and we set up the outdoor kitchen and we go make a list we go shopping to the market, we pick what we can from the farm and next thing we will build some more bamboo huts.

NU: Yeah, naturally. Yeah.

VN: Actually, we built the central salah and the bamboo huts out of the funding that we got. I remember you put aside the I think 20,000 baht.

NU: yeah. Mm hmm.

VN: And the toilets. I mean, we set up the whole infrastructure for the project. by being pre-programmed to do manage, to juggle various things like ‘yes, we can do it’

PS: Remember last time, when we were’t recording I said something about personally, when I think of something big, I get scared. When there is a big plan ‘we are going to do this and that and that’. I freeze up.

VN: Yeah. If you overthink things, yeah. Then it remains in that zone of thinking about it and what if? And what if it doesn't work? What if this happens? All the what ifs come in. And then you scare yourself into not doing it. But I think we were very like-minded in that, at least in my experience working with Tuk, we're both a bit crazy. We thought really, really big without having a single Baht. We just got so excited with this big thinking and these ideas. And then we just ran with these ideas.
And I think we never really discussed this Tuk, but I think in the back of our minds or a comfort for us was that both of us knew that we would achieve what we can, but it's very good to think very big. But do not completely set your minds like that, do not kill yourselves trying to achieve it totally. But keep in mind that we will do what we can, and I think this was very important for really achieving things that are beyond what we had thought about quite frankly. I mean, in terms of building this whole infrastructure on the farm, and dealing with very heavy monsoon rains and even [ ] getting stung by a little scorpion. Remember that Tuk, [ ] took her to the hospital.

VN: And the hen who would fly into the bamboo hut only to sleep in Naomi's bed. Every time they opened the door somehow that hen was waiting and wanted to go and lay eggs on Naomi's bed, it was crazy. Also I think there was a bit of a breakdown where [ ] was very tense and had a lot of pressure because in the brief for the project it said your at Womanifesto workshop 2001, but you don't have to make any work. And she completely freaked out about this. I like some people freaked out I think even Hiroko, the Japanese artists she asked me two or three times ‘we don't have to make work what do you mean?’ Like ‘you don't have to make work, enjoy’ some people really got it like [ ] and she really enjoyed Yeah, it was really fun.

NU: Yeah, so many stories.

VN: I don't think we were thinking about breaking any patterns or anything, but it was this whole idea of a workshop where you just approach the whole idea of a workshop differently. Earlier on, we planned to visit the people in the villages, like the craftspeople, the people who were weaving the baskets, or the fabric or the mats, we could visit them in their own homes, but then we realised that instead of that, we should create this meeting point with the main Salah and get everybody to go there. And I think that was such a good decision. Again, it was at first a logistical decision, but it turned out to be the best decision because that really created this environment didn't it? So we didn't overthink it, we didn't think that we should establish this and then we should do that, no, it was just like ‘we can't keep going to the villages every day and transporting like 10 artists around to different places, it would be better for us to host them’, the artisans, the people from the surrounding village come every day to Boon Bundang farm and of course lots of cooking will be done but everybody will eat, everybody will talk. I did think at one time ‘so what is going to come out of this’ and I said to myself ‘everybody's having so much fun why worry about what is going to come out of this’ And Tuk was keeping accounts

NU: Yeah, that's my job, all the time

VN: For the [ ] foundation. Yes. I know. I did it afterwards for the no man's land project with them. And you know, I think I might still have that file actually. I've been cleaning my studio and I have to look I should send it to is Asia Art Archive if I find it. I think it's there I have to look because there's some boxes I haven't opened and every single receipt for everything you bought, if you bought two pens and you got a little receipt from that CDs to store data, whatever. Every receipt had to be pasted on an a4 sheet of paper and everything had to be punched and filed and the whole thing with the report had to be given to [ ] foundation. I actually quite enjoyed that. I was like collage.

NU: the second Womanifesto [ ] my god Oh, my God.

VN: I remember because you didn't get the money didn’t you have to borrow money from your sister?

NU: yeah, I think you had to get an advance from the studio, [ ]. That time was crazy. That time I had to do all the accounting. It was crazy. Yeah. Almost 30 artists and then the assistants. Wow. This is a big experience.

VN: I know. And I stepped away from that because everything had to be like Thai. I was just like, ‘arghh I can't do anything’ you know. And I remember after that you said ‘Ah No Forget it not doing it again not doing Womanifesto again’
And that's what I said ‘let's go we go for a picnic, lets take a break’

NU: Yeah, take a break

VN: and then we drove to [ ] farm in [ ] car, no, the  first time we drove with [ ]

NU: Yeah. We do the survey. Yeah. With [ ] car. We travelled by car.

VN: That was a second time the first time I think we went with my [ ] pick up van. Oh, maybe you were already there? But I remember going in [ ] van.

NU: I wasn’t there. 

PS: wasn't it one of the event. And then there was a suggestion. And then [ ] took all of you. I remember there was something that you mentioned to [ ].

VN: I think we went two times for the survey. And the first time maybe [ ] took us or maybe we had two cars there was [ ] car and [ ] pick up and we realised it's very uncomfortable in the pickup van for six hours or whatever it was from Bangkok to Danyluk. And there was a there was a wonderful coffee place, we stopped at. What was amazing about it was the public toilet. They had been a little open air garden in each public toilet with the little pond and Lotus, it was like the best piss ever, you know, on the road. And then after that great coffee that was really nice. And Naomi was there, see the second trip we made I think it was on the same trip that Naomi was there. And Naomi and I were sleeping in the mudhouse.

NU: [ ].

VN: Yes, and Naomi and I were sleeping in what we call the honeymoon bed in the mudhut.

NU: She's from the gallery?

VN: see Naomi had come as curator in residence for about [ ]. And this was this was towards the end of her period. She was going to move back to the US and we involved her in the planning group for Womanifesto. So it was took myself Naomi and Tuk, four of us right were in the planning group. And Naomi was there as part of the planning group, making all these decisions, visiting the site and all of that, but then she left and when the workshop took place she came back, she couldn't come back for the entire time but I think she came for five days so she was there on the farm. And then we when we asked for volunteers Tuk, I think you and I interviewed the volunteers, or maybe you interviewed the volunteers 
I think you put it you put it out in the art school or in the gallery or through asking friends. That's how we got B and Pat and [ ]. And 

NU: There were two [ ] same name.

VN: And, and the architect? What was her name?

VN: it's in the catalogue because when we went to [ ] she explained about the architecture. So these are things which just happened. We didn't we didn't plan it., we didn't plan that we will have one volunteer who has an architecture background or anything like that. The world opened up, you know? It was so nice. I don't know how much time is left. Because mine is not a professional account.

PS: Okay. I think we've got a lot of recounting we've got

VN: I think what we should do now is maybe plan that we have another two such sessions

PS: And in between, you suggested, Varsha, that we can write as the follow up of the meeting 

VN: yeah, I think so, I think we can eat you write up a short thing about what, according to each one of us, is this thing called the Womanifesto way, for me there is actually no one Womanifesto way. The moment you define what the Womanifesto way is I think that's like you're setting it in stone, you know, the Womanifesto way is that there is no one way.

NU: yeah

PS: maybe we do another session like this?

VN: Yeah, I think let's do one more. Yeah.

PS: It's really, you know, I have a feel for the energy ,the energy of that moment, I did not, you know, because the but the energy of that moment and a sense of, of, not even having to push, but make it happen. Yeah. I feel that some time to write about it. It's always go to,

VN: I think to write about it. To write 800 words or whatever it is 2000 words essay. I feel it's very forced. And, you know, like I said to you, because I've written a number of different types of essays for Womanifesto, and I just find I will keep repeating myself. And actually, what is actually lost is this exchange of our memories and exchange our little moments of how things came together. 

PS: And from different angles too, from different perspectives, you know, the memory may be shared, but the perspective or kind of, not mirror, but the bouncing of ideas off of each other. I think that happens during the exchange, rather than, you know, when you write these things down. Yes.

VN: I think what also would be quite interesting, maybe next time, is if we each really talk about what it was to be involved in Womanifesto, and the Organising, you know, Tuk, you could actually talk about what it was the very first one when, I mean, I was introduced, I was told about Womanifesto, this woman's art exhibition that's being planned. And then in the next breath, I was told “well, but you know, they've been planning it for a while, so I don't know if these women will get it together”. And I won't name the person who, who said that to me. But that, it really made me sit up. And I was like, “how can you? How can you just dismiss it? Like, I don't know, if these women can get it together?” You know, “what do you mean, these women?” I mean, it just, I think it's something you know, all of us women, we understand this very well, because you were just dismissed because you're a woman, you know, and you're, you are not capable enough to get something together? And this is what I'm saying that we are, we are pre programmed, or we pre programmed ourselves to multitask, you know, we can do so so much. And we don't, you know,

PS: I think it's a good point to reflect on how each of us were involved in, the project, the events or in the action. We haven’t done that.

VN: Yeah. We haven't done that. What it really means to us, you know, what it meant to us, at that time, in our lives, as women and as artists. And looking back, you know, what it really means, because I think you have another understanding now, after years of experience and coming to the stage now, I have this other understanding of myself, and why I was so invested, why I was so involved in it, you start to see it from different angles. So I think it would be good if each one of us could put our minds to it and think about it. And then next time we meet, we can maybe have a session to talk about that. And that will also actually bring out different perspectives of what happened in the projects and why.

PS: yeah, it's a good point. And since we haven't done that, I think it could unravel some things, and maybe it'll become part of the Womanifesto way.

VN: All right. So should we end with that?

PS: I really enjoyed that.

VN: I know. I mean, we could be sitting in Tuk’s cafe you know, looking at the trees and drinking one of her really wicked looking drinks or sundaes. “I can’t even have a spoon of that whatever Sundae ice cream, the sugar in it will kill me”

NU: yeah [ ] she’s been studying by herself on how to make a good coffee, handmade

PS: wow no more [ ] and [ ]

NU: yeah you can come for the coffee, [ ] and pad kapow

VN: and you have to make that, what is it called? [ ]

NU: [ ]!, you like it? 

VN: I really miss it, some just a little while back I was thinking about it. I used to buy it on the roadside, you know in Bangkok near the construction site, they always have it

PS: won't be long.

VN: I know I actually I have a little bit of news in that I've been invited to participate in an exhibition which is being curated by [ ], and I think it will open on the 22nd of April

PS: and you are flying there?

VN: Well, I'm sending the work anyway. But I I would really really like to go and I'm going to find out what is needed with testing and if there is quarantine in Bangkok. If there is quarantine for one week I'm not going, but if it's not, if it's only one day, I’ll go. I think they make you stay in a hotel and then do your RAT or PCR test and then if you’re negative they let you go, but I'm still worried, what if I pick up an infection on the flight and I’m positive, I don't know, I’ll have to see. I would really really like to come.

PS: Can you send me the date, the rough date? Because I plan to go there late in April as well.

VN: Okay, when do you think? because it could be really interesting if I do go and if I go say maybe around the 19th of April. I'm sending the work ahead and they will frame it and they will do everything, then it's opening 22nd of April. After that we could all be sitting under the drinking [ ] coffee

NU: Yeah, let's make the plan.

VN: Have you got air conditioning?

NU: Yes. Yes. Yes

VN: April is going to be crazy

NU: [ ] that my sister built you know next door. So there’s a big air conditioner. It’s nice and cool.

VN: Perfect. Only for at night, for sleeping. That's all, during the day you can sweat sweat sweat. Yeah.

PS: I’ve written down the date now

NU: Phaptawan could come and maybe see the physical landscape, the [ ] and then we can focus on how the archive is going to be.

VN: We do the project for the archive Yes.

PS: Project can just come after.

VN: Yeah. We do whatever we do, when the three of us meet, it's a project.

I don't know, one week of just sitting under the tree drinking coffee. That's a nice project I think. [ ].
Okay, great so Phaptawan, you will find out if there is something that can convert our conversation into a written text transcript?

PS: Yeah, we can ask Marni if, you know that is some way in which that it can Okay.

VN: Yeah, that's a good idea.

PS: We’re meeting with Marni soon right and the group, so we can mention that, then I will explore what we can do with the transcript.

VN: Okay. Should I share this video with the group?

PS: Yes, please

VN: Marni and Yvonne. Let them watch it right before we meet. Yeah. Okay, great.

PS: If they have time to watch. I think their schedules are a bit crazy.

VN: I know. I know.

PS: But it’s a good idea.

VN: think it's good to to see it, before we meet next time, otherwise, you know, we kind of forget to say half of the things that we've discussed today. So, if they have time, they can watch it and then they might have…

PS: We can pick up from the discussion in the email, that we are working on the anthology and this is what we’ve started and what do you think?

VN: perfect. Okay, I'm going to stop this now.